Fearless & Careerless (Episode 1): The Zellennial Psychologist
Meet Rachel. She's a gritty, fun-loving moral psychologist who says the job market is anything but moral.
INTRODUCTION:
I want to kick off this new series of work-related interviews with a new friend who had the bad luck of losing her job between the time she reached out and the time we sat down for the interview. (I must be bad luck.)
Rachel is a self-described Zellennial. She earned her doctorate in 2023, and then decided it was time to get engaged, get married, get a puppy, get a job, get a house, get laid off, and, finally, get interviewed for Working, Man. She’s living the dream.
MMM: Welcome, Rachel.
RACHEL: Thank you. Good to be here.
MMM: First, how can I properly thank you for being a guinea pig in this new experiment? I can’t compensate you with money at the moment, but I’d love to help you advance in some way—something I can’t figure out—which is why I’m doing this Substack thing in the first place.
RACHEL: Well, I want to get back to researching the human psyche. I’m open to roles in that area. Or, if anyone reading this wants to geek out about psychology or moan about life as a cog in the industry machine, they can feel free to reach out.
MMM: Excellent. Also, if you could help me understand my own psyche—my madness in particular—that would be a full-time position. But let’s dive into the interview.
RACHEL: Sounds good.
MMM: Let’s start with your education. Obtaining a PhD is no easy task. I almost tried it but wisely backed down. What made you go that route?
RACHEL: I’ve always been academically inclined. Mom is a social worker; Dad is a psychiatrist. My parents wanted me to be a medical doctor. I tried premed for a brief time and moved into psychology. I was headed toward clinical until I took an ethics class. I then fell in love with moral psychology—the judgments and reasoning behind moral decision-making. I dove right into my doctoral program after undergrad.
MMM: You didn’t take a break to travel the world or sow your wild oats?
RACHEL: No, actually. If anyone reading this is an undergrad considering grad school, learn from my mistake—take a break, enjoy life, travel, gain job experience first. If you still want to go to grad school afterward, make sure you love it, like really love it. I thought I did. I probably still do deep down, but burnout is real. So, I say, take a break before you journey down the path of too much school.
MMM: I totally agree. You can’t learn much about yourself if you spend all your time in a classroom. Speaking of which, what went wrong for you in academia?
RACHEL: I got burnt out of academia. I hated the bureaucracy. Too much research for research’s sake. The whole ‘publish or perish’ mindset. If you rush science, you get poor science.
MMM: I loathe that kind of shit too.
RACHEL: Yeah, and I also had a bad mentor experience. We didn’t get along. I think my mentor was looking for a yes (wo)man, and that is not me. We clashed a lot. It also felt like my mentor never had time for me or the other students in our lab—and if you don’t have time to be a mentor, I say, don’t take in students to mentor. Bad schooling is real.
MMM: I’ll say it for the first time: People in positions of authority are fucking lazy.
RACHEL: The nail in the coffin was when my university behaved about as unethically as you can imagine and covered it up for as long as possible. I would say more, but that wouldn’t be wise for legal reasons.
MMM: So, you’re there to research moral psychology, and your university is behaving without morals?
RACHEL: Yes, the irony certainly isn’t lost on me.
MMM: Crazy stuff. Let’s bring it back to your story and sense of purpose. How would you describe your relationship to work?
RACHEL: When I started my academic journey, I thought I would live to work. I imagined myself in the role of the passionate professor and felt like I would rock that lifestyle. Then I started paying attention to my professors. Don’t get me wrong, most of them love their jobs, but their life is their job. I have no idea how some juggle family and work considering how much time they spend on campus—but kudos to them. While it was hard for me to be social, I loved my taste of life. I decided to lay my vision of being a professor to rest—I don’t want to give up my life. I thought a nice 9-to-5 would provide a better work-life balance. I thought wrong: Work-life balance is a myth.
MMM: As much as a job can be a pain in the ass, let’s talk about unemployment. Sometimes it’s easy to forget that even the most educated can struggle to find work.
RACHEL: I earned my PhD in December 2023. I didn’t get a job in my field until September 2024. Fun fact that I don’t usually talk about—I actually started working retail a couple months before I landed my last full-time job. I needed the funds, so I trained AI and worked retail. A job is a job.
MMM: I don’t think I’d last a week in retail. I’d throw something at a customer and get fired. I’d have more stories to tell at least.
RACHEL: Ha ha ha! So, I just got laid off from that aforementioned full-time job, a market research position.
MMM: How did the layoff go down?
RACHEL: I was ready to get out anyway. My company was moving offices. I don’t think I clicked with my colleagues well. They gave me the official “financial restructuring” reason. I was on a small team, and they wanted to bring someone in with more experience and didn’t have time to train anyone.
MMM: Yeah, I often call employers “lazy” both because it’s the ultimate insult in a “time is money”-type of society and also because it’s fucking accurate. People who make decisions are not only immoral (or amoral) but profoundly lazy. They hold their reports to higher standards than they hold themselves.
You mentioned your husband, though: How has your family taken the news of your layoff?
RACHEL: My husband has been very supportive. He made me realize that as hard as it is to be without a job, I felt worse having one.
I didn’t tell my parents at first. It took me eight months to get my first market research job, so it was hard to tell them. When I did tell them, I was shocked at their response: They told me to go celebrate. I guess the real pressure is what I put on myself. I am fortunate to have such a supportive family.
MMM: That’s good to hear. I think more and more people, even the older generations, are accepting reality. Not so much hiring people, though. Let’s talk about those bastards a little bit. What concerns you most about searching for a new job?
RACHEL: The current job market is terrible, and people say “just apply” as if it’s helpful advice. Then, I get ghosted, rejected, receive contradictory ATS advice, etc. I can’t plan my life around ATS. I can’t keep wasting my time. But people say, “just apply.” Employers want you to write a cover letter, which is just a platitude. The message is “bow down to the employer.” My last company made people write a cover letter. If the hiring team liked a candidate—but that candidate didn’t write a cover letter—the team would go back and ask them to write one.
MMM: Cover letters are the bane of my existence—and I’m a fucking writer. Your critique of them is spot-on. But don’t you have a PhD? Won’t that help get your application to the top of the pile?
RACHEL: I wish. It’s crazy how “entry-level” jobs demand three years of experience. I feel like my PhD doesn’t matter to the market. My husband asked me once if my PhD was a waste for me personally. It’s not. I left high school with the goal of getting a PhD—and I achieved it. Younger me would be proud. Older me is proud. I just wish the job market would see its worth like I do.
MMM: The job market is an unthinking, unfeeling monster.
RACHEL: Speaking of “unfeeling,” I hate AI. It’s good for some things like scheduling—but not writing, not resumes. It’s just going to lie and make me look good for that job. And I can’t “easy apply” on LinkedIn. I have to find the original job posting. Sometimes there isn’t an original posting, so I have to “easy apply,” even when it isn’t optimal. And, of course, some job postings are scams.
MMM: Yep, everything feels like a scam these days. Healthcare, employment, grocery shopping, you name it.
For me, the worst thing is getting rejected after a lengthy—usually far too lengthy— hiring process. And I almost never get actionable feedback.
RACHEL: I’m happy to get a rejection because at least they took the time and didn’t ghost. I had no idea that being rejected could feel so good. It provides closure. I would much rather be rejected than ghosted. I have undergone multiple rounds of interviews, only to be ghosted at the end. Probably the most unprofessional thing a company can do. You have someone come in person, interview them, take them to lunch, and can’t have the decency to say they went with someone else? All I ask is basic communication. Yay or Nay. Don’t leave me on read.
MMM: I got ghosted back in 2009 after an in-person interview that I thought went well and happened to recently stumble on my email exchanges with the recruiter. I looked her up on LinkedIn. She was still in the same role. I connected with her only to chew her out. She promptly blocked me. It was a moral victory of sorts. These people are heartless in my opinion. I’ve heard “nice” recruiters in my network attempt to defend this type of behavior—but to me it’s indefensible. It’s cowardly and lazy. Did I just say “lazy” again?
RACHEL: We deserve better.
MMM: Indeed. On that note, let’s close with a happier topic: What would you do with your life if money weren’t an issue?
RACHEL: I love moral psychology and ethics. I have a healthcare certificate and would love to work as a clinical ethicist or be a researcher at a university with no pressure to publish or teach. I could also open up my own think tank. There are so many moral questions I could research.
MMM: Sounds like work to me, but your passion is palpable. I wish you nothing but the best. Thank you for subjecting yourself to this kind of questioning. I just hope the readers enjoy this conversation as much as I did.
RACHEL: It was fun. Thank you!
CONCLUSION:
Rachel is a trooper. I want her at my side when shit goes sideways. Her intelligence, wit, sarcasm, and overall vibes are uplifting. (I could learn a lot from her.)
If you’re wondering why this isn’t in audio form, I’m working on it.
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